Marilyn en Belle verheffen seksueel genot tot kunst

STDs, unwanted pregnancies, intimidation: as a woman, you could almost forget that sex can also be really fun. Illustrator Marilyn Sonneveld and sexuality expert Belle Barbé want to get that out of our minds. That’s why they launched Wipsite two years ago : a website where they elevate positive sex education to an art form. Their mission: Making everything discussable. ‘You can’t talk enough about sex between two people who love each other.’

How did you come up with the idea for Wipsite?

Belle : ‘I was never particularly good at anything. Except talking about sex. In group 8 I gave a speech about puberty. The whole class giggled, but I thought it was important that my classmates knew what to expect. After I had studied sexuality studies, I wanted to become a sex educator, but I felt something was missing in the existing information material.’
Marilyn : ‘As an illustrator, I was fascinated by the rise of edited images and how that influences our idea of ​​appearance. At one point I saw a woman undergoing a labia correction on the RTL4 program ‘embarrassing bodies’. According to the doctor, her labia were too large. I thought that was so bizarre. That was the moment I thought: ‘I want to use my images to provide honest information about women and sexuality. So I went looking for someone with a lot of theoretical knowledge. I came into contact with Belle via a Facebook call.’

Why a website about rocking?

Belle : ‘A lot of sex education books are very cheesy. There is a disproportionate amount of attention for the negative aspects of sex. The other extreme is porn, which is very raw and unrealistic. With Wipsite we try to find the middle ground: sex education that is beautiful to look at.’
Marilyn : ‘With abstract art we also want to equalize the sexual pleasure of men and women. Regardless of whether you are a man or a woman, have large breasts or small ones: everyone can experience the same amount of sexual pleasure.’

Isn’t that sexual pleasure the same now?

Marilyn : ‘During sex education at school, boys are prepared for a wet dream. That’s fun and exciting. As a girl, you are told that you will get your period, can get pregnant and can have to deal with transgressive behavior. That has nothing to do with fun.’
Belle : ‘And later in life you also see that boys prefer to settle down with a girl who hasn’t had that many bed partners. While in their single days they themselves do sleep with a lot of girls.’
Marilyn: ‘Exactly. If you go to bed with ten men as a woman, you are a slut. A man is not.’

How can this difference be explained?

Belle : ‘Christian morality has ensured that men are placed above women in Western culture. He is active and she is passive.’
Marilyn : ‘It starts with Adam and Eve. Eve was made from Adam’s rib and also ate that apple. She is evil.’
Belle : ‘There is also much less known about the female genitals and arousal. Boys get an erection, girls get wet. But getting wet is only the last stage. The clitoris is also a corpora cavernosa, which works the same as in boys, but you don’t see it.’
Marilyn : ‘And that the clitoris is a large corpora cavernosa is something we have only known for a very short time.’

Is there a biological difference in the sexual experience of men and women?

Belle : ‘I don’t think anything is entirely biological or entirely cultural. It’s somewhere in between. But I do think that women have a less good connection with their genitals. When a man is aroused, his penis presses against his pants. A woman also gets aroused several times a day, but she often doesn’t notice it.’
Marilyn : ‘It’s there, but it just needs to be warmed up.’

So it’s a myth that women have less desire for sex?

Belle : Sexologist Rik van Lunsen always says: ‘If you go to a restaurant and the food wasn’t good, will you go back to that restaurant the next week?’ Women have so much less orgasms than men. If you don’t have orgasms, why would you still want to?’

How does skewed sexual morality actually work for men?

Belle : ‘It is also oppressive for men to be put in the same role all the time. The pressure to perform is very great. Sex is not over until a man has come. If he doesn’t, it’s his fault.’
Marilyn : ‘Yes, men have a lot to emancipate as well. A man also has less enjoyable sex if he feels that he has to be very dominant in bed and is not allowed to show any emotions. We really have to get rid of that stereotype of the passive woman and the aggressive man.’
Belle : ‘We do not see men as evil. Men and women oppress.’

So how can we ensure we have better sex?

Marilyn : ‘Be less insecure. Accept that it’s not a problem if your left breast is bigger than your right or if you’ve had an STD.’
Belle : ‘Knowing what you like by discovering it yourself. And daring to talk openly with your bed partner. That’s actually the only proven increase in sexual pleasure: how well you can talk about it.’

Isn’t there already a lot of talk about sex?

Belle: ‘Ik denk dat veel dingen onnodig geseksualiseerd worden. Als een Magnum-reclame sexy is dan slaat dat nergens op. Het is een ijsje. Seks wordt belangrijk gemaakt op een manier die er niet bij past. Maar over seks tussen twee mensen die elkaar liefhebben kun je niet genoeg praten.’

Waar zijn mensen het meest onzeker over tussen de lakens?

Marilyn: ‘Er is veel onzekerheid over het uiterlijk. Iedereen wist vroeger wel dat foto’s in  magazines gefotoshopt waren, maar door de komst van sociale media zie je niet meer wat echt en nep is. Het lijkt ineens alsof iedereen even perfect is. Op Instagram is zelfs the girl next door nu een lekker wijf. Daardoor komen er steeds grotere onzekerheden, omdat jij in de spiegel misschien iemand ziet die niet zo perfect is.’
Belle: ‘En over de technieken. Er wordt nooit uitgelegd hoe je nou goede seks moet hebben. Er zijn meisjes en jongens die bepaalde handelingen gewoon niet durven omdat ze niet weten hoe het moet. Wij worden voornamelijk gegoogled op zoektermen als ‘hoe moet ik vingeren.’

Hoe kunnen jullie die onzekerheden met Wipsite wegnemen?

Marilyn: ‘Onze website is heel laagdrempelig. Elke telefoon heeft internet. Dus als je op date bent en denkt: ‘Shit hoe moet ik ook alweer beffen?’ dan kun je gewoon even naar het toilet lopen en Wipsite raadplegen.’
Belle: ‘We willen ook echt laten zien dat alles normaal is. Ieder lichaam en elke fantasie. Als je weet dat niets gek is dan durf je je ook makkelijker bloot te geven.’
Marilyn: ‘Daarom maak mijn illustraties ook heel abstract. Zo kan iedereen zich erin inleven, ongeacht welk lichaamstype je hebt.’

Wat is het grootste taboe op seks?

Marilyn: ‘Op latere leeftijd nog vragen hoe je fijne seks kan hebben…’
Belle: ‘…anale seks in heterorelaties.’
Marilyn: ‘Vouwen die veel seks hebben met veel verschillende mensen…’
Belle: ‘…of binnen je relatie met iemand anders het bed induiken.’
Marilyn: ‘Oh ja. Zoveel taboes!’

Het afgelopen jaar is het seksueel overschrijdend gedrag veel in het nieuws geweest. Wat is de invloed daarvan op de seksuele beleving van vrouwen?

Belle: ‘Het is belangrijk dat we zien dat #metoo niet gaat over seks, maar over machtsmisbruik. We moeten dus geen zwart-wit verdeling maken waarin vrouwen willoze slachtoffers zijn en mannen agressieve daders. Dan krijg je dat meisjes niet durven te pijpen omdat ze het idee hebben dat ze dan de man dienen. Niet elke man is een potentiele dader. Ik sprak laatst een jongen die zei dat versieren in de kroeg echt anders is na die hele discussie.’

Wanneer is jullie missie nou geslaagd?

Belle : ‘Our mission is endless because people will always have sex. But I would like it if people see Wipsite and get the feeling that what they feel is normal. That they feel more free and have more fun.’
Marilyn : ‘I also hope that people see our website and get over their insecurities and just want to have nice sex.’

Want more Wipsite? Click  here .

Interview by Marieke de Ruiter

Video by Rosa Cherim

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